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Post by Fatal hilarity on Mar 12, 2009 19:02:10 GMT -5
Hmm... well, there are awkward moments that when taken as is, contradict some other parts of it. BUT, like my brother knows, I'm up to the challenge when it comes to making each and every story in a certain franchise coexist with one another, despite their seeming hopelessness. Some examples require a little more than additional information (like with Simba's son), and on rare occasions I have to give the story a heavy rewrite.
I think when it comes to this ride, the main thing that we need to do to make it almost entirely canonical is to have the action in between each segment be made clear. Like, you know how the Toon Patrol mentions taking care of Jessica several times, as if the previous mentioning of it never occurred? I think with some thought and a little tweaking, they could be more than one attempt to get her.
The main problem comes from the fact that the pauses in between each bit of the second Toon Patrol meeting (apparently in some weasel exclusive shack behind the Ink & Paint Club) are very, very short- I think this is because Disney wanted everyone in line to more or less get the same exposition to understand the story without seeming repetitive. Unfortunately, this means telling the listeners pretty much the same thing differently each time, so in many ways each bit of that scene is an alternate version.
What I think needs to be done is have something actually happen in between each pause, instead of it leaping right into the next bit, if you were to make the ride a fully developed story. One of these days I'm going to dramatize it in short story form as part of my complete Disney weasel fic, but I need to have the transcription completed before I decide exactly what to do. That's the main reason I took those photos- so I could know where the heck everything was in relation to one another, and how the little details related to the story. (All the various splatters of Dip on the walls, for example.)
So I think if I try hard enough, we can take the ride as true fact, besides the all-too-brief pauses. As you know, I've thought very carefully about Doom's involvement with it.
One thing that I've had problems with, though, is how exactly the Ink & Paint Club could have an entrance in Anaheim as well as downtown LA. The best I can come up with is that when Eddie visits the Ink & Paint Club, it isn't necessarily in LA. Nobody says that it is! Is that a good enough excuse? (Remember, the story behind "Mickey's Toon Town" is that the orange grove that became Disneyland is over the fence of Toontown.)
With that, I like to think that the scenes in the film (and in the comic book story “The Trouble with Toons!”), and the scenes in Car Toon Spin are on opposite sides of the club. I mean, after all, the only parts of the club that are supposed to be outdoors is the sign and the door that Bongo is behind. The rest of the club that we see in the ride is indoors! Who's to say that Bongo doesn't guard two different doors?
Convoluted, I know, but those are the sort of steps I usually take to make things work together.
One thing's for sure, though- Gary K. Wolf's sequel Who P-P-P-Plugged Roger Rabbit? has far too many contradictory elements from Who Censored Roger Rabbit? to be taken as is. If it's going to be canonical, it needs a serious rewrite.
I think Resurrection of Doom needs to be more developed rather than be rewritten, though. The story goes by awfully quickly, don't you think?
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Post by psychoangel51402 on Mar 12, 2009 22:17:15 GMT -5
My gosh, I wanna go on that ride SO badly!!! I was planning on writing my own fic about the ride...would you mind if I did one also? Do you think people would be annoyed if Dizzy has a small part? One thing that I've had problems with, though, is how exactly the Ink & Paint Club could have an entrance in Anaheim as well as downtown LA. The best I can come up with is that when Eddie visits the Ink & Paint Club, it isn't necessarily in LA. Nobody says that it is! Is that a good enough excuse? (Remember, the story behind "Mickey's Toon Town" is that the orange grove that became Disneyland is over the fence of Toontown.) With that, I like to think that the scenes in the film (and in the comic book story “The Trouble with Toons!”), and the scenes in Car Toon Spin are on opposite sides of the club. I mean, after all, the only parts of the club that are supposed to be outdoors is the sign and the door that Bongo is behind. The rest of the club that we see in the ride is indoors! Who's to say that Bongo doesn't guard two different doors? Convoluted, I know, but those are the sort of steps I usually take to make things work together. I'm sorry, I don't understand. What does Anaheim hafta do with the Ink and Paint Club? And I've never heard about an orange grove, could you explain? I'm sorry, I just don't understand any of it...not that you were unclear, I just must've missed a thing or two somewhere... RoD does go by quickly. And tho Slithy's gang is okay, it would have been MUCH better if the Toon Patrol had been resurrected, too. |
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Post by Fatal hilarity on Mar 13, 2009 1:05:16 GMT -5
My gosh, I wanna go on that ride SO badly!!! I was planning on writing my own fic about the ride...would you mind if I did one also? Do you think people would be annoyed if Dizzy has a small part? Hmm... I dunno. Surely it would contradict mine? It's just that I've done a lot to connect all the stories, and I haven't shared each and every theory that I have with everyone. Don't you think that it'd be better if everything was worked out beforehand? What I mean is that I'm concerned about having two different versions that are undoubtedly going to be a lot different. I kinda want to avoid having disputes which one is better... And I also don't dare do my version without feeling like I'm fully prepared and have every kink and gap that may show up in all the Roger Rabbit media I get worked out. I'm picky that way, and I wouldn't want any of my fics be made obsolete by a new development. My point is that I wouldn't want you to write yours, and then suddenly I come up with a random issue that blows it out of the water. A lot of Lion King fanfictions were killed off by the sequel, because they talked about Scar's son, and now we have Nuka. I'm sorry, I don't understand. What does Anaheim hafta do with the Ink and Paint Club? And I've never heard about an orange grove, could you explain? I'm sorry, I just don't understand any of it...not that you were unclear, I just must've missed a thing or two somewhere... Oh, um... well, it's thoroughly explained here: www.weaselboard.proboards105.com/index.cgi?board=wacky&action=display&thread=1305Funny, you posted something there... RoD does go by quickly. And tho Slithy's gang is okay, it would have been MUCH better if the Toon Patrol had been resurrected, too. Come to think of it, why would Slithy want to resurrect Doom instead of his "brothers", anyway? Perhaps they still believed that Doom was going to take revenge on the rest of the toons, like I believe Doom told them he was going to do to make them work for him. You have to admit- Doom is much more capable of wreaking revenge than the Toon Patrol, what with his transformation abilities. |
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Post by psychoangel51402 on Mar 13, 2009 12:55:41 GMT -5
oh...well, i was planning on doing it on my own, with my own ideas on the plot to the ride...i don't PLAN on contradicting you...if you don't want me to, i won't post it...and if you come up with something, i can always change it...
oh! that's odd...i must've just forgotten...sorry...
i dunno. maybe he didn't really get along with his 'brothers' and just used them as an excuse. yeah, i agree, Doom is better at revenge, the Patrol is better at havoc! ^_^
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Post by Fatal hilarity on Mar 13, 2009 13:56:39 GMT -5
Sorry, I didn't mean to squash your ambitions... I'm sorry if I was discouraging.
I personally like to think that since Slithy liked the Toon Patrol enough to consider them his "brothers" (like I prefer to think), he was pretty loyal to them. The fact that he seems to want revenge indicates to me that he's upset that they were Dipped, and so he became desperate.
That's one of the things I explore in the "ultimate fic" and in my overall fanfiction. Since Slithy bears some obvious similarities to Smarta**, I like to think he made himself like a little brother to SA- putting up with his insults and all.
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Post by psychoangel51402 on Mar 15, 2009 23:26:05 GMT -5
it's okay! but i'm a smidge confused. would it bug you if i posted it? or were you just cautioning me?
i agree about Slithy. i kinda pictured him as maybe being Smart Guy's younger cousin, who grew up admiring him.
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Post by Fatal hilarity on Mar 16, 2009 1:30:23 GMT -5
Hmm... a little bit of both, actually. I mean, it's possible I might disagree with you. But who knows? Most likely, though, I'd probably take a different approach and do it in a darker, more mature style than most.
Slithy, to me, uses the word "brother" in the sense of "brother weasel", like Christians and black people. But I also think he sees him as an older brother, which is why I think he sort of imitates him. Unfortunately, I doubt Smarta** would be as nice about it...
Of course, the writers probably literally had them be brothers, which is too absurd, even for toons. And whoever created him probably just wanted to make a weasel that was similar to Smarta**...
I often wonder if the people who made these officially unnamed weasels gave them casual names... you know, for reference drawings or something like that? I'm not sure how willing I am to track down the writers and artists and ask them. It'd be a pretty weird question...
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Post by psychoangel51402 on Mar 16, 2009 17:53:01 GMT -5
i bet they did (give their weasels casual names). i always do - i actually doodled a crocodile and named it Fontleroy once ^_^ if you're drawing something, IMHO, you need to be close to it. You can't just draw "weasel no. 3". You must draw a personality. and if you want something to have a personality, it helps to give it a name.
that's my experience, anyway.
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Post by Fatal hilarity on Mar 16, 2009 18:23:01 GMT -5
Generally I draw many, many random characters without giving them names, but if I want to use them more than once, I give them a name. But I don't think it's required for a character to have a name in order to give them a personality... it does help, though, because then you don't have to call them by their type or species, which can be limiting. But I do find it likely that the artists/writers gave the weasels names, at least in RoD... but the likelihood of finding out what they are is very small. I don't wanna do it! So does anyone think that it's plausible to have Toontown bend the laws of space in order to have one entrance to the Ink & Paint Club in downtown LA, and another in Anaheim? Are there some iffy details that still need ironing out? EDIT: Okay, here are my photos of Toontown. I decided it'd be easier to have them here- and it's pretty appropriate, anyway, so... smg.photobucket.com/albums/v428/tymime/Weasels/Mickeys%20Toon%20Town/?action=view¤t=SS850719.jpgAnd as a bonus, some weasel-related things from Mr. Toad's Wild Ride... img.photobucket.com/albums/v428/tymime/Weasels/Mr%20Toads%20Wild%20Ride/SS850711.jpgimg.photobucket.com/albums/v428/tymime/Weasels/Mr%20Toads%20Wild%20Ride/SS850712.jpgI didn't know there was a car named "Weasel", did you? I just spotted it there and then, so I had to take it. Also, I think my photo of the mural is far superior to the copy I found off the internet. You can see all the details now, like their faces... sorry about it being sideways, by the way. |
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Post by Fatal hilarity on Apr 19, 2009 13:01:02 GMT -5
I'm troubled by these props in the queue... if you look closely and do some research, you'll find that there an embarrassing amount of anachronisms. For those of you who don't know what an anachronism is: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AnachronismBut my point is that there are references to Disney films that only existed after 1947. Some of them may have been in production at the time, but many are WAY too far in the future. I can forgive the ones in the movie, like the waiter penguins and Tinkerbell, especially since one of the screenwriters, according to Wikipedia, didn't intend to present strict animation history. I always imagined that many of them just hadn't gotten a role yet. This lists all such cameos: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Who_Framed_Roger_Rabbit_charactersFor instance, did you know that the Goofy short that Roger watches in the theater, Goofy Gymnastics, actually came from 1949 and not 1947? Anyway... here are those props: www.flickr.com/photos/disneydena/2131159664/"1DRLND" and "IM L8" are read as "Wonderland" and "I am late" or "I'm late", which are of course references to Alice in Wonderland, which came out in 1951. "MR TOAD" obviously refers to the first half of The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad, which came out in 1949. This one's okay with me, since Mr. Toad makes a cameo in the film, and the Toon Patrol are directly based on the weasels in it anyway. "1D N PTR" is read as "Wendy and Peter", which is a reference to Peter Pan, which came out in 1953. www.flickr.com/photos/disneydena/2130379935/"CAP 10 HK" is "Captain Hook", another Peter Pan reference. "L MERM8" is "Little Mermaid", which came out in 1989. This is arguably the worst example. "101 DLMN" should be obvious. The film came out in 1961. "RS2CAT" is read as "Aristocat", which of course refers to The Aristocats, which came out in 1970. www.flickr.com/photos/23879054@N00/3114378982/This bulletin board makes a direct reference to Melody Time from 1948. Also, the "Buy Bonds" sign, cleverly omitting the word "War", implies that World War II is still at hand. WWII ended in 1945. Since most of us (presumably) agree that Car Toon Spin can be taken as a prequel to WFRR, especially since the Toon Patrol is still alive, are we to disregard these references as silly mistakes on the part of the Imagineers? I mean, if I were in charge of the ride's design, I'd make sure everything was authentic like Disney should make their rides. Sometimes I wonder if the Imagineers honestly wanted to make this ride take place in modern times, like Mickey's Toontown presumably does. It makes me think of that children's book where we see Eddie and Roger on the cover, with Smarta** and Wheezy chasing after Roger, when WFRR is clearly the first time Eddie met Roger. img.photobucket.com/albums/v428/tymime/Weasels/diff.pngI always got the impression that Roger had scrapes with the Toon Patrol before, especially since he seems to be familiar with who they are. This ride's dialogue clearly indicates that the Toon Patrol had already made several attempts to bump off Roger, for whatever reason. Come to think of it, why do they want to bump him off? Does Doom just dislike his zaniness and want him "brought to justice" or whatever the motivation is at this point where the Smarta** and the all the weasels are considered criminals? This ride has caused a lot of trouble, hasn't it...? Geez... all I ask is that Disney do some research about their own filmography... how hard is it for big companies that make these sort of franchises to avoid contradictions? So does no one have any opinions about the physics-defying nature of the Ink & Paint Club? |
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Post by psychoangel51402 on Apr 29, 2009 10:28:04 GMT -5
I'm wondering if CTS is supposed to be a sequel, because Smart Guy says "We're gonna get him good this time..."
If so, they (Disney) could make the excuse that it could take place any time in the late forties to early fifties, and that the "Buy Bonds" sign is old (you know, someone forgot to take it down). I'm not saying this is what I think, I'm saying this is probably their excuse for all the anachronism. There really is no excuse for the Little Mermaid and Aristocat references though.
No thoughts about the Ink & Paint Club, though - I guess they intend it to be a back door and completely forgot where the Club was supposed to be - too far away to be a back door, as you know...
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Post by Fatal hilarity on Apr 29, 2009 13:43:30 GMT -5
I had always assumed that Roger had several encounters with the Toon Patrol before he met Eddie, since he seems to recognize them to a certain degree. So I like to think that this is like the Toon Patrol's third or such attempt to bump him off.
I mean, seriously... how does Disney explain how Smarta** came back to life and the others from heaven? I don't think the writers for the ride were thinking at all. This is why I'm just outright disregarding those license plates. I heard there was a hidden joke referring to Timon and Pumbaa as well... can't confirm it, though.
The extreme distance between the theoretical front and back doors in the Ink & Paint Club is the reason I think we can just chalk it up to Toontown messing around with the laws of physics again.
(I don't think there's any excuse for pretending that WFRR suddenly changed to taking place in the '30s in Who P-P-P-Plugged Roger Rabbit?, though... the plot involves the making of Gone with the Wind.)
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Post by psychoangel51402 on Apr 29, 2009 14:37:10 GMT -5
I agree. They did NO research. Either that, or they purposefully disregarded all rules. I'm gonna watch now when I go on "Stitch's Great Escape" to see if they stuck to the story on that...
Mayhap there are two Ink & Paint clubs? One in the 'real world' and one in Toontown where Toons are allowed to be patrons?
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Post by Fatal hilarity on Apr 29, 2009 14:59:22 GMT -5
Hmm... two Ink & Paint Clubs? That would keep Jessica real busy, wouldn't it? I suppose it's possibility... I mean, after all, Bongo implies that Mickey Mouse would be allowed in (although I notice he's scheduled to perform).
I want a work of fiction taking place in the WFRR world that answers all your questions for you. I don't just want to hear "it's a cartoon".
That's what I intend to do with one of my projects! That's why I'm doing so much thinking about everything...
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Post by Fatal hilarity on Jul 4, 2009 3:20:55 GMT -5
Does anyone else think Car Toon Spin depicts a second Ink & Paint Club? It's the only logical explanation of its differences from the one in the film that I can think of.
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